Still Researching

[pineapplemama]

I'm one of those people that gets a little O.C.D. about "look before you leap." So, I've been researching crabbies for a while now. So far I can tell I'm going to be addicted to petdiscounters.com!! Too many cool things...and that four-letter word blasted all over the place...S-A-L-E!! Anywho, my main questions (for today) is size definitions, and "crab count per gallon".

Counting Shell?? or no?? Is this chart even remotely accurate?
Tiny=? dime or smaller??
Small=? dime-quarter?
Med=? quarter to half-dollar?
Lg=? half-dollar to reese's pb cup?
Jum=? pb cup to hostess cupcake??

10gal can hold __tiny, __small, __medium, __large, __jumbo
20gal can hold __tiny, __small, __medium, __large, __jumbo
30gal can hold __tiny, __small, __medium, __large, __jumbo
50gal can hold __tiny, __small, __medium, __large, __jumbo

Thanks for any help you can offer. I would like to have my tank up and stable before I adopt any new friends. From what I've read that would be best for the little guys, or gals!

T.T.F.N.

Crystal

[moire_eel]

Welcome to HCRU! It's great that you're doing your research first. There's more to keeping hermit crabs than most people realize, and I've never been to a pet store where they could tell you how to care properly for crabs. Pet Discounters is a great place to shop -- I found their hermit crab section very helpful when I was first starting out, because I was a bit unsure about what things were okay for hermit crabs. As I understand it, the owner of Pet Discounters has hermit crabs of his own, and worked with the Hermit Crab Association to choose the items he sells for crabs.

You're right that getting the temperature and humidity stable is the hardest thing when you're getting started. And when the seasons change, you may well find yourself struggling to get it stable again! When I first started I lived in a place with window units rather than central air, and that made it really hard. Central AC and heat make it much easier! So does having a gauge you can trust. I think this gauge is the best you can get: http://www.petdiscounters.com/produc...cat=277&page=1
I love this gauge, and have probably reccomended it about a billion times!

You know ... there has been a lot of debate on a good "crabs-per-gallon" estimate. One of the reasons for this is that the size categories tend to be interpreted differently by different people. Another is that it very much depends on how your tank is set up. If you have a lot of extra walking/climbing area, in the form of second levels, tank decor, wood pieces and vines and tons of hiding places, you could keep more crabs in a smaller area. The point being not that you can overcrowd, but that a relatively barren tank won't be a comfortable home for as many crabs.

I saw this given as a rule of thumb recently, and it seems pretty good to me:

3/4 to 1 gallon per micro
1 to 1.5 gallon per small
3 to 4 gallon per medium
5 to 6 gallon per large
10 to 12 gallon per jumbo

I would add that your tank should always be at least 10 gallons, and that I wouldn't put a jumbo in anything less than a 40 gallon. Really a better measure than gallons would be square inches of "floor" space -- this is where second levels come in.

Like I said, the crab size categories are somewhat relative, since most of us don't hold them up to the objects of comparision! But here are two other size charts I've seen:

A micro could fit on a dime with a little room to spare.
A tiny is nickel sized.
A small is quarter sized.
A medium is silver dollar sized.
A large is about basebal size.
A jumbo is baseball to softball size.

pea sized - micro
Under dime = Teenie
dime up to nickel = Tiny
Nickel up to Quarter = Small
Quarter up to Golfball = Medium
Golfball up to Baseball = Large
Baseball and up = Jumbo


I gotta warn you, that no matter how perfect you get your crabitat, you may lose some crabs -- not because of what you're doing, but because of how stressed they are by the time they reach the stores. Crabs are wild caught (attempts to breed them in captivity have not been successful) and the distributors take very poor care of them. When you are ready to go choose your crabs, try to find a place that keeps them in proper conditions, and choose crabs that are active. Which is not to say that the crab who won't come out of his shell couldn't possibly be a good pet, but the odds say he's more likely to be suffering from extreme stress.

I hope that helps some. If you have any more questions, just ask!

[pineapplemama]

Thanks So Much for the Welcome and the Guidance.

After reading some of the posts about bad p.s. (eg. crabinacup) I had to go check out my fav. pet store. Don't ask me why but I love to wander in PetLand. I bought our first Betta there. Of course he refused to eat and died within a few days...needless to say I was wary of checking up on the little crabbies. I also wanted to compare prices on some things against what petdiscounters offers...just for the record I am definately gonna shop online, even with the shipping it is still massively cheaper!

Anywho, so I went to PetLand and found the crabbies (I almost didn't 'cuz they were over by the puppies!). Thank God it wasn't quite as bad as I feared-not great but not crab in a cup.

They have 2 10gal tanks...appx 15 crabs in each, mostly quarter to half-dollars, but one guy that was definately a Large-Jumbo.

1st Issue: I found one little guy that had passed. I tried misting him to no avail. The girl tapped his claws and nothing. So she tossed him, didn't even record it. It's kinda scary to me that they don't even record the losses. It's bad enough that consumers often think crabbies are throw-away pets without the P.S.'s treating like they are!!

2nd problem was the blue gravel. I mentioned that the lil guy in the corner was trying to burrow and couldn't, and asked if they ever used sand. She said that they don't clean the substrate they just toss it, and that sand is too pricey. I mentioned the PlaySand (home depot) option and she said that it gets bugs.

3rd Problem...water dish yes...water in it...NO! I asked her and she said well the sponged is good and wet, and if we put water in the water dish they will drown. I told her to try putting some of the GRAVEL...grr...into the bottem...

4th Problem...NO GAUGES! How the hello do they expect to keep it right when they don't measure. She said they mist twice a day. I mentioned putting saran wrap on at least part of the screened top and she said that causes mildew!

AND THE STUPIDIST PART???

They have care sheets next to the crab supplies...not really too close to the tanks...that specifically say THESE CREATURES NEED A WARM HUMID ENVIRONMENT...and yet they don't provide one for the crabs in their care!?

I spent and hour and a half (they were turning off the lights so I had to leave) fixing the tank as best I could. I asked for a mister with dechlored water which the girl provided-she was very nice just for the record...I misted the crabs, the walls, the air. I moved the sponges to one side of the water ponds- added some gravel...grr again...and put in some fresh water. I rearranged the vines and choya wood so the guys could actually climb on it, oh I sunk the water/food bowls into the gravel so that the littler guys could actually get into them!

When I left those guys were all over the place! Considering that when I got there they were all hiding as best they could, I figure I either pi$$ed them off, or made them happy! I'm hoping I helped! Anywho, I really really had a hard time walking away from them, but I don't have a home ready and waiting so I had to.

Okay, sorry for that little rant. I sometimes get a bit carried away! Yeesh, I don't even have a crabby yet and I already sound like a lifetime PETA person!

Thanks again for the info, and this great site!

-Crystal

Odd thought?
One Potato, Two Potato, Three Potato, Or?
Or what? You'll switch to radishes? turnips?
Pick a tuber...any tuber...

[moire_eel]

Yeah, for reasons I don't understand, people just don't seem to find hermit crabs "cute" enough to be concerned about their well-being. If a pet store kept puppies in similarly poor conditions, it would make the local news. (I personally think that hermit crabs are cuter than puppies! )

I have had some limited luck making changes at pet stores in my area. There was one lcoally-owned store where I had gotten them to keep a perfect setup, but then the store was sold to a new owner, and after one trip in there I just couldn't bear to go back. The old owner (assisted by at least 10 pre-teens, who I think were helping out for fun) kept all the animals in great conditions, which and was very interested in doing the same for the hermit crabs. The new owner saw no problem with dirty cages and dog pee in the floor. And the hermit crabs? Forget about it. Why do people like that get into the pet store business anyhow?

Conditions for hermit crabs at Petco have improved nationwide, because the corporate office decided to make it happen. PetSmart's corporate HQ (from what I can tell) has a lot of guidelines that employees must follow, and are not concerned about new information on how these guidelines can be improved. Sometimes I find a receptive employee who will make small changes that help a little. For example, apparently they aren't allowed to have a second dish for salt water, but one employee will put some Doc Wellfish crystals in the food dish, so crabs can make their own salt water. He also buries the dish up to the edge in the gravel so that the little crabs can get to it, and crushes some of the big pellets they feed so that the little guys can eat.

Even a pet store with the best conditions will lose a crab from time to time, but a tank full of dead ones is a sure warning sign to stay away. It's funny how many people think that hermit crabs stink, because they've only encountered tanks at pet stores with lots of dead, decomposing ones. MY hermit crabs smell as sweet as flowers, LOL -- unless they've just been eating fish, of course.

[pineapplemama]

Well, they definately smell better! And no 10lb poopies to trip over either!

Sounds like your PS needs a swift kick to the tailbone! I checked out petco, okay setup, but there is definately room for improvement...won't ramble about those details. Maybe when I get them to change their ways!!

The Petco here has Straws and PP's. I read that Straws can be harder to keeps than PP's. What about Ecu's? Are they as "easy" to keep as PP's? I know they are more active, so lotsa stuff to play on/in/around/under is even more important.

Any tips on where to get crabbies other than local PS? I like the idea of personally picking them, but I've been to 4 diff. PS's seeing probably 40-50 crabs, and all but 1 are PP's--the other was 1 straw.

There's a hot Batherapy bath calling my name so...

T.T.F.N.

[crazeecrabber103]

Welcome to HCRU Crystal!
It's really sad that any animal has to be in those sorts of conditions. I just wish there were more pet store employees that were actually interested in the animal's health and wellbeing,and not just in making extra cash.

[moire_eel]

I have heard that people find Ecuadorians at the locally-owned pet stores, but I haven't seen them here in Houston. There are some places you can order hermit crabs online, but I don't reccomend any of them. PM me if you want more details on that. But really PPs are great crabs to start with -- heck, they are great crabs in general, and probably my favorites. The biggest "personalities" among my crabs have been purple pinchers, and they seem to be hardier (though I have heard this said of Ecuadorians, too). Though of course I love them all, and I totally understand wanting to explore the different species options.

Incidentally, keep an eye on the crab tank at Petco -- from time to time, if they're like mine, a Ruggie, Indo or even a Cavipes will appear in the mix. But never Ecuadorians -- dunno why Petcos never seem to get those.

[pineapplemama]

I'll definately try that. If I could find the diff. types right here in town then I wouldn't have to worry about the little guys getting shipped all over the place!

So, PP's are the "hardiest"? Maybe I should start out with those! I got a tank, it's a 20gal one. And I went and got the plexi for a lid. Still trying to figure out how to put holes in it...but I have time. The guy also gave me some extra bits they had leftover so I have stuff to make shelves!

Okay, so 20 gal tank, plus a shelf or two. Any thoughts on size/number I should start off with?

Still waiting for supplies...tick.tick.tick...

T.T.F.N.

Oh, I was snooping on ebay...if anyone needs corks this one might work?? I'm gonna hold off on the corking for a bit, judging by some of the photos in here it looks like they are addicting too! (auction #8253196474)

[pineapplemama]

Well, I got most of my supplies today and I just couldn't resist.

The Crabitat:
20gal, 2/3 playsand, 1/3 EE, One shelf with EE, fresh and salt water dishes, plants and net for climbing, UTH, hidey logs, little choya stumps.

The Crabs:
Strawberry:
RED-a bit bigger than a golfball
PP's:
Mover-conchish shell, but about golfball I guess
Checker-green turbo, about 1/2 dollar size
Bow-green turbo, quarter size
Shaker-awful v-day painted shell about quarter
Arrow-painted conchish shell almost a quarter
Java-nickel, maybe a bit bigger
Pekoe-nickel, maybe a bit bigger

Red definately needs to pick a new shell, but he's very active.

Checker hid for a bit, but is now climbing on EVERYTHING!

Mover is a bit of a loner, but rambles a bit too

Shaker is kinda chicken "shakin' in his boots"

Bow-CLIMB, CLIMB, CLIMB

Arrow-DIG, DIG, DIG

Pekoe-Very friendly, climbs/hikes alot

Java-IN HIDING...

I'm still waiting for a few supplies, I ordered my gauges before moire tipped me off to that good one, but I may order that one next. I have about a million shells on the way. Plus some coral and more climby stuff. So far they seem pretty happy with thier new home. Tonight's menu includes some salmon, so we'll see!

So, overall opinion? On tank, and #/size crabs?

Anyone?

Thanks again for all the info. It really helped me figure out all the how-to's.

T.T.F.N.

-Crystal

[moire_eel]

The tank size to number of crab ratio sounds good to me! Is that a 20L or 20H? It's good that most of your crabs are choosing to explore, though they'll probably settle down in a day or two and be less active for a few weeks. When they're had some time to settle in, you'll have to post pictures!

I'm glad you're offering fresh food right away -- I wish I had known to do that when I started. It definitely makes for healthier crabs! Check out http://www.epicureanhermit.com if you haven't already, for a food list and other great info, including a forum for hermit crab food issues.

Enjoy your new crabs! Just wait until you get the shells in there -- many purple pinchers LOVE to change shells.