Discussion in 'Store's Exposed.' started by CudaCrabby, Jan 14, 2005.
Hope it just keeps getting bigger and bigger (petition)!!
Bravo Chaplain! The letter she wrote was excellent. Very professional and intelligent sounding. I am a firm believer that we must approach this matter in a way in which we can make Wal-Mart understand why we find this so deplorable and wrong. But it must be done in a civilized manner.
These little guys have hope as long as they have all of us on their side. Crab in a Cup will likely end because we care enough to help . Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing the link to the petition to get us started.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kali_Ma:
Unfortunately, hermits are cold blooded and are not protected by the Animal Welfare Act. http://www.idausa.org/facts/awafacts.html
Basically, there is no law protecting hermits and providing a basic modicum of care.
This is something that is up to each state...Several states have passed much stronger protection laws.
I live in Georgia and was amazed to discover that Georgia has incredibly generic animal cruelty laws regarding the selling or adoption of pets. I say "generic" because the law protects ALL animals that are sold or adopted as pets. I called the Animal Protection division of the Georgia Department of Agriculture and had them define "animal" for me to make sure.
The person mentioned cats, dogs, rabbits, rats, fish, snakes, tarantulas and then said anything sold or adopted as a pet was protected. I asked her about hermit crabs and she assured me they are included.
The main problem was that the DoA didn't realize there were multiple species that had different care requirements. So, they asked if they could come to my house, meet my crabs and learn more about hermit crabs and the different species.
So, the Georgia DoA is willing to legally protect hermit crabs.
The next problem is that people in Georgia don't realize that hermit crabs are protected and bad conditions need to be reported.
Wow, that's awesome! I know there's a big difference between having a law on the books and getting it enforced. And getting a consensus on what constitutes cruelty,even when it should be obvious. But nevertheless, having a specific law to cite can be very effective.
My dad works for the Department of Agriculture in Florida, but I'm not sure whether the DoA in Florida covers animal cruelty. I'll have to ask him -- at the very least he can help me find out.
This is true. One good thing is that if someone complains to the Ga DoA about a pet store, the DoA is legally required to inspect the store within 3 business days. This is for every complaint, no exceptions.
The law requires pet dealers, breeder, shelters, etc. to provide humane care. Humane care is defined as ``but is not limited to, the provision of adequate heat, ventilation, sanitary shelter, and wholesome and adequate food and water, consistent with the normal requirements and feeding habits of the animal's size, species, and breed. Inhumane care includes any act, omission, or neglect, which causes unjustifiable physical pain, suffering, or death to any living animal." Rule 40-13-13-.01(14)
A locally-owned pet store was selling E crabs and only had fresh water. There was no salt/ocean water. They got in trouble for this because it did not meet the water requirements for the species. They also got in trouble for the wood floor/no substrate and wire walls of the enclosure. The salt water is definitely what got them though. The field inspector was in my kitchen when he called the store to inform them that the species needed both kinds of water. He also got them for lying about FMR being their supplier...FMR doesn't supply Es and was willing to sign a statement stating this.
The inspectors can't carry a humidity gauge with them (I think this is considered...I don't remember the word used...maybe combative...no don't remember exactly)
They do inform the stores of the need if the air doesn't feel humid and there is no lid etc.
Temperature is required by law.
It is certainly not perfect but it is more than what most states have! I encourage anyone who encounters a problem with a petstore in Georgia to file a complaint with the Georgia Department of Agriculture Animal Protection division.
edited to add the following thread about WM selling Valentine Hermies
Posted February 11, 2005 02:32 PM
I was so sad today. I went into Wal-mart to buy that Doc Wellfish's Aq salt. Well just after walking into the store, by the registers,where the draft of the door made it freezing cold, was a rolling cart of valentine chocolates and flowers and a 10 gal tank of Hermit Crabs all painted up red with hearts. I was so disgusted to see the conditions they were living in. Better than the deli cups, but not much. They were obviously shipped in the deli cups, cause they were sitting by the tank and that's what they were probably sending them home in. They were on aquarium gravel and there was a butter lid with some sort of wet, moldy mush on it. There were 2 water bowls, both tipped over. One had filthy water with feces or food in it and the other I could not see in because there was a hermie crawling into it, probably taking in what little water didn't spill out. My 5 year old son even said, Mom they aren't taking care of these. We should buy them so they will live and have a happy home. Believe me, I wish I could have rescued them. I did go back to the pet department and tell the clerk that the hermie tank was in desperate need, the conditions they were living in were poor. He said he would take care of it. I'm going back tomorrow to check. I will ask to speak to the store manager if it's still the same. They probably need educated.
Ok, I'll step off my soapbox.
Thanks for listening!
Posted February 11, 2005 08:34 PM
It is just so very depresing.
This world we live in will exploit everything it can, to make a dollar!
Yes, please go back and see the manager, and thank you in advance Jodie!
Posted February 11, 2005 09:38 PM
It amazes me that any store would choose to maintain a crab tank so poorly. How is that going to sell crabs, other than to people who feel compassion for them? (Which, sadly, is a minority.) It's just stupid business, even leaving out what's right and decent.
Posted February 12, 2005 07:40 PM
I have been reading all of the posts about the Walmart crabs in a cup, feeling sad as I read them. Then reading piccaloooo's post on her special work with these creatures was overwhelming.
Today I had reason to go to two Walmarts in my area. The first didn't have what I needed, and they don't have a pet section. I was so glad to see that. Then I went to the other Walmart. Lo and behold, crabs in a cup with painted pink heart shells. Not a single crab was moving, not a body part could be seen. Then I looked and saw a 10gal tank on the counter with some sand in it and a lot of hermies, not one moving. No water in the peanut butter lid being used for a water dish, a dried up sponge, some pellets too big to eat, and some awful looking old popcorn, apple slices, bread chunks, and believe it or not, about a quarter of an egg shell. I saw they were trying ... I then saw the care sheet taped to the counter and saw a whole stack of them next to the tank. The tank had a hand written sign -ask for assistance please. No cover on the tank, no heat, you all know the story...so I asked for assistance. I asked the clerk if he could help me with the hermies as they all looked dead. I asked him if he'd read the care sheets, and he said no, we just got these, they just showed up. Instantly I thought of all of the people signing the petition against this treatment from the posts I'd read here. Then I told him about this website and the proper care of hermies and he wrote down web the address on the care sheet taped to the counter. I told him about the petition across the country. I showed him how to handle the hermie properly, and discovered that the assistance notice on the tank was because a customer got "bit" by a hermie earlier in the day. We handled a couple hermies, the first fell out dead onto my hand. I handed him the little body and asked him how they could try and sell a dead hermit crab and not even know it was dead. He listend to everything I said. We talked about the different species of hermies, these were all PP's, how long they can live and how big they can get if cared for properly. We talked about proper food preperation as these are babies and can't eat the bigger pellets. Then I found another hermie and as it warmed up in my hand, it came out and I explained how they should be curious and moving their antennae. This little hermie did just that. He was so cute. This is what a live, healthy hermie should look like, I told him. He listened to what I said, watched the hermie exploring my hand and immediately moved the cup hermies into the tank and then he asked me how I would suggest he fix-up the tank with what he had available there. He took the water dish out, cleaned it and made it a saltwater pool by adding doc wellfish salt, got another dish for fresh water, removed all of the old food, added new pellets that he crushed and took me over to chose a fish food that could supplement the pellets. He asked me to chose an aquarium decoration off the shelf that they might like and I pointed to one that closely resembled a hut where they could crawl under or climb on (I thought of Lilly). He got another clerk to find a thermometer and added a tank cover with a light to get the heat up and keep some humidity in the tank until he could talk to his manager as they don't carry proper heaters. As he did these things, the temp moved up to 70 degrees and the hermies slowly started peeking out of their shells and some crawled over to eat some food, some crawled immediately into the hut decoration. I was there about 1 1/2hrs. The clerk was so excited to see some moving. (I was so excited to see some moving!!) I explained that the tank is not ideal conditions, but certainly so much better than when I came in. He asked me to come back in a few days and see if anything was improved and if not, could I call the store manager. I told him I would. Thanks to Paul, if he comes to visit the site and Robert, too. This employee listened to what I was asking him and began to realize that the cups were not the best choice. He then said, how can I send them home in those cups? We don't even sell hermit crab food for them.
I know, I told him. Now you're beginning to understand. He had some other employees come over and showed them the hermies. And told a customer who just had one die to come talk to me to see if she should change her conditions, but first he wrote the HCRU web address on the care sheet he handed her. I thanked him for all he did today, and I know the hermies thanked him, too.
Jodie, it is my turn to jump on the
I read all the posts I can on HCRU and learn what I can. It is easy to sit at my computer and nod in agreement to the posts I read as other share their experiences and make a difference. I knew today, when I saw the hermies in a cup at my Walmart, that with the education I'm receiving here at HCRU, I had to share it with the clerk. Hopefully, it made a difference. cj
Posted February 14, 2005 06:23 AM
You should be so proud of yourself! I know I am proud of you.
You are helping to make a difference one crab (and person) at a time. I am so pleased to hear that the employees were compassionate and considerate enough to listen to you and make the necessary changes. It takes a lot of courage and caring for them to take steps on their own. So many employees (and I am referring to employees in general-not just from Wal-Mart) hide behind the excuse that they need to ask their manager, etc so they can avoid having to make an "executive decision". Of course, there are managers that will not allow employees to make any decisions at all (which in my opinion are not very good managers, but that is another story).
I applaud and thank those employees at your Wal-Mart. I hope they do come to visit the site and learn more about these little guys. I would not expect that everyone in the store be experts about crabs or fish. But the personnel that work in the pet department should have a general knowledge of the basics and the animals should be treated humanely.
Thank you for using your voice and speaking up for those little crabs
Posted February 14, 2005 08:57 AM
That was so very kind of you!
Thank you for speaking for those poor little crabs, taking the time to help the store employee and direct new hermie owners to this site.
Hopefully, many, many more will have a happy life because of your efforts.
You are wonderful !!
Posted February 14, 2005 06:19 PM
Friends, I know I couldn't have jumped in and done what I did at my Wal-mart or local pet store if it hadn't been for all of the very kind help, encouragement, hermie education and support you've shown me. You've given me the confidence to speak up for the little hermies in my part of the world. You've never made me feel bad about anything I did with the care of my hermies because I didn't know differently. You took the time to respond to my posts and point me in the right direction. That is my goal in speaking with these clerks.
You are helping to make a difference one crab (and person) at a time.
It seems this can be said of all of the members at HCRU! I'm in very good company!
Posted February 15, 2005 06:34 AM
YOu've inspired me to go back to my Wal-mart and check in on those little valentine guys. I did go to PetLand a buy a new hermie Sunday and gave the store mgr the name of this site and told her if she possibly could to hold all the hermies they get in and check to see if they are stuck in thier shells. I told her the stories I've read here about the painted shells verses natural shells and the stories attached to them. She was genuinly interested and never knew. I encouraged her to get more natural shells in for customers to pick from. She said unfortunately the painted ones sell the best. I told her with a little education to the customer, she could change that. It's all what they reccommend, they are the knowledge source for new hermie owners.
Each one, teach one. If we keep this up who knows what will happen one day!
Posted February 15, 2005 03:05 PM
I went back to WalMart today and checked on the little valentine critters. They were still in their tank and thier conditions were much improved. They had fresh and salt water, their food was clean and crushed down to bite size. There was one moving around, the others were all huddled together. There was not a person in the department, I even went back and checked before I left. I want to stop in again and see if they will let me put a label with this website printed on it on all of their "how to" papers they hand out.
I was glad to see they cleaned up the tank, it was a sight the other day and I thought if I were new to crabbig and those were the conditions I found hermies living in at the store, I might think it was ok to do the same at home. NOT!
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