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environmental discussion

Discussion in 'Discussions, Theories and Trial Ideas' started by Donny (TMNT), Jul 7, 2010.

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  1. Donny (TMNT)

    Donny (TMNT) (Large Crab)

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    I got permission from a moderator to post this, just so you know its been approved. I know this is a controversial subject, but I think its worth talking about. As you know, there has been lots of talk about the environment,
    like animal rights and the oil spill, so I thought it would be better to put
    the thoughts on the subject in here instead of the chatter box, which I believe
    isn't the ideal place for debating important things. So don't be afraid to share your opinion, as long as we act reasonable and consider others. I've thought about what most people are talking about in the world, and put them here
    to give us all a headstart on the discussions:

    water, trees, animals, energy, the ocean, recycling, global warming, pollution
     
  2. Donny (TMNT)

    Donny (TMNT) (Large Crab)

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    I'll start us off here with a question: What environmentally based subject are you most concerned about, based on the list above or other subject which I
    forgot to mention?
     
  3. Hermies4Ever

    Hermies4Ever Guest

    Is it okay if I list my overall top three things that I most concerned and/or worried about? If I may, I think I would have to say global warming, pollution, and animal extinction. How about you?
     
  4. Donny (TMNT)

    Donny (TMNT) (Large Crab)

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    I don't believe a lot of the thing's about environmental problems, but the key thing would have to be recycling. I'm not a recycling fanatic, or have ever even supported recycling in a major way, but I think that is the most truthful thing I've heard about the earth's problems. This may upset you, but I don't believe in global warming. But I'll listen if anyone has proof that could tell me its true.
    The reason I believe recycling is the most truthful, is because it just makes sense to me. There's nowhere for the bottles to go. You can melt them down and reuse them, but they will never go away completely.
    I've got an opinion on almost every subject on environmentalizm, if you want to hear them.
     
  5. emmac350

    emmac350 "Fourth Molt In Progress"

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    I don't take much stock in a good deal of those topics. Let's see if I can make sense as to why not:

    Yes, we mess up the world. Let's take global warming, for instance. People say that our cars are to blame. But think about it this way - global warming has been going on since the time of woolly mammoths. If there hadn't been global warming then, we'd be eating mammoth steaks and wearing fur clothes now. Also, the amount of CO2 our cars emit into the atmosphere is next to nothing compared to what comes out of volcanoes (and there are volcanoes erupting every day; in the oceans, in the Pacific Ring of Fire, etc.). Perhaps if we hadn't cut down as many trees as we have we might have a way to combat the CO2 we do produce, but we haven't had any sort of measurable impact on the world like we think we have.

    Pollution, I agree, is a problem. I just drove to Dallas today and you can't see the skyline clearly until you're in it. My plan for once I move is to buy a bike and hopefully live close enough to work to use it daily instead of my car. This isn't possible in the area I moved from - there weren't sidewalks and unless you wanted to share a 50mph road (where the usual speed of vehicles was 70) with cars, you had to drive. But if you have the option to bike or walk instead of drive, why not?

    As for animal extinction...if we completely kill off an animal, that's kind of our bad. Say the dodo, for instance. That being said, there are some animals that are so dumb that they lack the wherewithal to know to be afraid of, say, a car. Have you ever seen an armadillo? They will look at an oncoming car, and go back to what they were doing without moving. I've seen them in the road looking for food, look at a car, decide it isn't any danger, and keep looking for bugs while the much-slowed car is getting closer. They are truly the idiots of the animal kingdom. If an animal has a survival instinct, all the better. The animals that refuse to reproduce (like pandas) and who only eat one specialized thing (bamboo shoots) I have a harder time justifying. They're adorable, I agree, but I just can't see their importance in the food chain...so they stop bamboo from growing as quickly because they eat it...what relies on a panda? Mosquitoes? Fleas? I don't know...I love pandas, and think they're absolutely cute, but part of me just thinks they're kind of useless.
     
  6. Donny (TMNT)

    Donny (TMNT) (Large Crab)

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    I believe that trees have the ability to grow back, otherwise, they'd be gone by now. There are millions and millions of trees out there, so I can't see what the problem is. If there is a tree problem, then the only way to fix it is to plant more trees. Picketing tree fellers won't help, the workers don't care. And personally, what would we do without trees? I don't value a tree because
    of its beauty or because of what it gives off, I value one because of what
    we use them for. Lets face it, without cutting trees, we'd have no houses, no newspapers, no boats...I could go on. And without trees, fisher men couldn't catch enough fish, tons of jobs would be lots, and people could end up homeless. If you can find a solution to all these problems without use of trees,
    then there would be no need to cut them down. As for the ice age, I don't know how it ended, but Its probably because the world got hotter.
    But the world changes periodically. The temperature changes, animals go extict
    and new ones take their place, and it goes on. If global warming does exist,
    I believe its not our fault. How can we be blamed if the sun burnes us up?
    Its millions of miles away. What's your opinion?
     
  7. Michele213

    Michele213 "Never Molted"

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    Heated topics... My favorite kind.

    Personally, I feel all environmental issues are tied together. It all just comes straight down to ignorance. Yes, I believe global warming is happening. I also believe that global dimming is masking the consequences of the warming, and we'll be hit with irreversible mass extinctions and human starvation in a few life cycles. Neither of which (global warming nor global dimming) are entirely man-made phenomena. emmac350 has mentioned that natural phenomena add to global warming (and also global dimming), and I agree. BUT, I do believe that we're doing something terribly wrong. Just a generation ago, the skies used to go black in my area with migrating birds. These days, I am extremely lucky to see a flock greater than 100 outside of a wildlife management area. I've also watched swamps my family has lived near for half a century dry up.

    What is my greatest concern? Overpopulation. This goes hand in hand with my other great concerns: exhaustion/pollution of resources (oil, water, foods, etc), land use (forests being cleared for agriculture, animals without habitat because of the usage of land), and poaching.

    As of right now, I can't believe an existing species is useless. It will take hundreds, maybe thousands of years after we've killed a species to be able to theorize the true extent of why they were here. In America, a vast forest of trees, stretching a hundred or so miles is theorized to have been planted by the droppings of the now extinct passenger pigeon. If the land and the birds were left well alone, would the dust bowl have occurred? We will never know. If poaching wasn't so rampant 150 years ago, would Minnesota still have a herd of wild bison? How many of our stigmatized conspiracy theories actually did exist? Hobbits were a thing of legend, until their skeletons were unearthed several years ago. Can that make the yeti or big foot a lasting memory of an extinct species? When the dodo went extinct, did it take another species with it? The black footed ferret cannot survive without eating prairie dogs, and they almost went extinct as prairie dogs were hunted almost to extinction. It can just boggle the mind thinking about what we lost and don't even know it.

    And, I believe this all comes back to ignorance. I am beginning to think that humans have stopped evolving. We manipulate our world and evolve it to what we need. Not enough food? Genetically engineer plants that bear so many heavy fruits they fall over and wilt unless held up by by metal (but not disease resistant). Not enough pebbles for rings and trinkets and other arbitrary usages? Bulldoze a mountain (and kill an entire ecosystem, pollute the water). Wild animals eating your hens? Use strychnine to poison the predators, (and accidentally) livestock, birds, insects, and your children - then whine about the economic disaster. Not feeling well? Use some antibiotics and shake in terror when a super bug resistant to the drug emerges - then create another antibiotic (repeat). Eradicate a virus from the human species, but keep live samples in a test tube and hope that it doesn't get out... The list can go on forever.

    The "I don't see it, so it's not really happening" mentality of humans really hit me not more than two weeks ago. For a few years now, we had a lonely woodchuck living under our garage. Woodchucks are not terribly dangerous, nor are they destructive. He couldn't have cared less about my (leashed) cat trying to bumble up to him to play. He never got into my vegetable garden (not so true for the deer, chipmunks and squirrels!), and he left the house alone. What more could you ask from a wild animal? Now, 8 days ago he was laying in the driveway, obviously sick. It took an hour for me to see the extent of his suffering. It appeared that some ignorant neighbor of mine, gut shot him with buck shot and left him to die. I don't know how far he dragged himself, but I do know once the act of putting him out of his misery was put solely on me, the vague stench of death that had been around the house for DAYS disappeared. This experience had drained me so terribly it can't be explained in words.

    There is no answer to our environmental problems. Education might slow down our destruction, but nothing is made to last. Perhaps it's the human trait to take hold and control everything that is the problem, and only when the reset button is hit by drought, disease, starvation, or a huge rock falling from the sky will the environmentalists will win their battle against the masses.
     
  8. Donny (TMNT)

    Donny (TMNT) (Large Crab)

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    Human's have made really dumb mistakes in the past and are still making them,
    but like I said before, its unfair to blame the whole human race. If you find something's an issue, you need to narrow it down and find out who's really
    causing the problem. If you believe the earth's in serious trouble, then you
    should ask yourself: "Then who's doing it?" If you find that it isn't a person's fault, then I don't think we should try fixing it. If the earth does something to itself, I don't think we should mess with it. But if it effects you in a bad way, which I think we can agree that sometimes it does, we have the right to do something about it. That probably sounded like ignorance in that last sentence, but the word "environment"
    goes farther than we sometimes think it does. We're part of the earth too,
    so therefore, we're also part of the environment. Many times efforts are futile,
    and its not our choice what happens.
    Going along with the belief that humans aren't helping the earth at all,
    doesn't that pretty much trash all that those animal scientists are working on right now?
    At the zoos, they have study buildings for pandas and elephants to help the dying species.
    People are picking up trash and bottles and volunteering at street corners, and
    are working hard, too. So, doesn't it sound belittling to say that the entire human race is killing the earth?
    Now these days, the trash cans around the world have recycling deposits right next to them.
    If you are someone who loves the environment, then you're in luck. There are a lot of people who think like
    that. True, disasters like oil spills are caused by people who aren't careful enough, but you can never
    permanately stop things like that from happening. Moving off that subject, I have an Idea which
    might bring the population of pandas back. We know that pandas will only eat one thing,
    and they've eaten all the bamboo. I think scientists should work on trying to expand the panda appetite.
    Pandas either don't have the stomach to eat anything else and will die if forced, or are just really picky.
    Maybe the reason why they only eat one thing is because their ancestors lived in a habitat filled only with the
    bamboo. So I think they should be test fed all sort of things, and see if the pandas eat any of it.
    I'm just thinking, and this idea will probably fail miserably. I'm just thinking...
     
  9. Donny (TMNT)

    Donny (TMNT) (Large Crab)

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    Man, that was a mouthful. I hope I didn't set anyone on fire.
     
  10. Hermies4Ever

    Hermies4Ever Guest

    Wow! You guys are getting a lot of finger exercise typing out these longgggg posts! :tease1:
     
  11. Donny (TMNT)

    Donny (TMNT) (Large Crab)

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    Yeah, I know. I guess important subjects really get people typing...
     
  12. Hermies4Ever

    Hermies4Ever Guest

    Yup! Especially if they all have completely different opinions and perspectives when it comes to the topic!
     
  13. Donny (TMNT)

    Donny (TMNT) (Large Crab)

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    Hmmm, I haven't seen another disccussion post for a while, now...
     
  14. willow555

    willow555 (Large Crab)

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    the last post was today.
     
  15. Hermies4Ever

    Hermies4Ever Guest

    I think Donny (TMNT) is talking about posts related to the environment and such, not just posts in general.
     
  16. Donny (TMNT)

    Donny (TMNT) (Large Crab)

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    I was refering to this thread's post yes, but I see we're starting to get more feedback anyway. :)
     
  17. Donny (TMNT)

    Donny (TMNT) (Large Crab)

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    ....bump.....
     
  18. Hermies4Ever

    Hermies4Ever Guest

    Or, if you prefer moving, grinning, freaky, blue smileys with white teeth, you could use this! :bump:
     
  19. Donny (TMNT)

    Donny (TMNT) (Large Crab)

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    Yeah....I forgot that smiley. I hope to get more opinions on this subject,
    but not a lot of the original posters are still active.
     
  20. Hermies4Ever

    Hermies4Ever Guest

    I am sure they will be on eventually. They do have lives outside of hermit crabs, you know. And they may take care of them, everyday, but that does not necessarily mean they have the time to visit the forum everyday. Some of them are grownups, and have jobs, and children to take care of...
     
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