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Concerned About A Product

Discussion in 'Store's Exposed.' started by crabbycrazy2, Jan 26, 2008.

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  1. crabbycrazy2

    crabbycrazy2 "Second Molt, A Success"

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    It has come to my attention yesterday of a certain preservative found in a product on the The Crabbage Patch website. A few of us fellow crabbers on here were doing some research on it and have found some awful facts. The Colorado Care Co. has several products sold on their website. The one in question is their Hermit Crab Kibble. Yesterday, when I visited the site it stated that it had metabisulfite in it. We looked it up online and found these results.

    "It is used as a food additive, mainly as a preservative and is sometimes identified as E223. As an additive, it may cause allergic reactions, particularly skin irritation e.g. eczema; gastric irritation and asthma. It is not recommended for consumption by children. It is present in many dilutable squashes (i.e. fruit juice concentrates) and in candy bars such as Mounds."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_metabisulfite

    It is also used as a sterilization / Cleaning agent, and a aid in stump removal and it's chemical properties are alarming!

    "When mixed with water, metabisulfite releases sulfur dioxide (SO2), a pungent, unpleasant smelling gas that can also cause breathing difficulties in some people. For this reason, metabisulfite has fallen from common use in recent times."

    This is the kicker though! I emailed The Crabbage Patch asking them about this and how it can be good for the crabs. When revisting the site late last night they had taken it off the ingredient list and substituted calcium and mineral supplements in it's place. I was shocked and appalled that they could misinform people like that, what if someone buys it now and think their getting a great product for their crabs!
    This is their reply to my initial email asking about the ingredients.

    " I am not sure where you are finding metabisulfite in any of the Colorado Care Products’ ingredient lists. Here are links to the 3 products we offer by them. Colorado Care Company Strawberry Color Supplement Colorado Care Company Indo Color Supplement Colorado Care Company Hermit Crab Kibble



    The Colorado Care Company line contains no preservatives."



    Regards,

    Kirk Weick


    I also was concerned that CCC's products stated using salt, or pure plain salt and the metabisulfite . So, I have emailed CCC about all of this. This is what I wrote:

    "Since the recent pet food scare, I've been very interested in feeding all organic foods to my animals. I was visiting The Crabbage Patch website and came across your products. I am a little concerned about some of the items used in them. I noticed that one was salt. That is harmful to crabs, unless it's sea salt. The other is a preservative that was listed as metabisulfite. That kind of preservative has been know to cause allergic reactions, particularly skin irritations,eczema; gastric irritation and asthma. It is not recommended for consumption by children. I was wondering if you could email me all the ingredients that are in the product. Thank you for your time and consideration in this matter, but I want only the best for my pets."

    Sincerely,
    Jeffiegfan24


    This was their reply to my email:

    From Sara Elizabeth Ann Taylor <blaze88@gmail.com> Block Sender | Block Domain
    Date 2008/01/25 Fri PM 11:16:43 CST
    To jeffiegfan24@verizon.net
    Subject Re: Question about product
    "All of my ingredents are listed on the crabbage patch website. There is no metabibulfite in my product. The salt is 100% salt, with no iodine added or anti-cracking agents. I do not use table salt in my product."


    As you can see, she didn't send me a complete list of ingredients. I received a very short reply. So, I am currently waiting other reply emails from both companies. I have asked The Crabbage Patch how and why they changed the product ingredients after receiving my concerned email. Also, to the Colorado Care Co. I have restated a complete list of the calcium/ mineral supplements used in making their products. Also, for her to confirm if it's pure sea salt. When I receive those replies, I will post them here. I just want everyone on here to know what's going on, even though most of us order food from Vicki. There are those who are new to crabbin' and need to be informed of the problem!
     
  2. HermitPaws

    HermitPaws "Fourth Molt, A Success"

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    Thats Scary!! thanks for the info.
     
  3. Hildegarde

    Hildegarde "Preparing For Third Molt"

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    crabbycrazy2

    I'm very interested in the outcome. I've bought the kibble both from Tammy and Blaze. Blaze assured me that the kibble contained 100% of the nutritional needs of crabs. So I've been giving it to them daily along with two or three other food items I've purchased from places like NarNars, Els Shells, Vicky etc.

    Is this serious enough to stop using it, or is it more of a concern there may be a problem but it is in the process of being resolved?
     
  4. LSHermies

    LSHermies (Micro Crab)

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    That is just great. I have some of the kibble!
    I bought from them before I found this site and found out about vickie.

    Thanks for the info. I ground my kibble so I am sure that preservative is ground right up and through out the food.
     
  5. crabbycrazy2

    crabbycrazy2 "Second Molt, A Success"

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    I believe it is serious enough to stop feeding it to your crabs. If it is known to cause these side effects in humans and not recommended for children, what could it be doing to the crabs? I could understand maybe, if they said it was a typo on the ingredients, but my first initial email asking about it, went unreplied for most of the day, and then checking back on the site to get a screen shot of the product, it was mysteriously changed to calcium/mineral supplements. It was then that I received the email from them stating the product was preservative free. A little too fishy for my taste. I was not the only person to see it listed. I haven't received any replies to my latest emails to both companies. I will def. post them here ASAP. So yes Hildegarde, the matter has not been resolved.
     
  6. crabbycrazy2

    crabbycrazy2 "Second Molt, A Success"

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    One other quick note to add: There are NO COMPLETE diets for hermit crabs as the product also states.
     
  7. vckums

    vckums Moderator

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    crabbycrazy2 did contact me alogn with a link to CP and the ingredient. When I did a wiki search I found the same info she did. It sent up red flags to me, so I sent off a quick email to Julia Crab about it asking if it was ok to feed to crabs in crab food. She emailed back stating "Absolutely not".
    I did see the ingredient listed on CP's site. I'm concerned that it was taken off and no explination given. Erasing a word on a site doesn't take the ingredient out of the food.
    Definately make sure to keep us updated should you hear back from either place.
     
  8. Yadokari

    Yadokari (Small Crab)

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    This is why I only buy homemade foods (like vicki's)! I don't trust companies who make "hermit crab food". It's all too suspicious.
    This thread is so interesting :) It's like a conspiracy in the crab community.
     
  9. LSHermies

    LSHermies (Micro Crab)

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    When I bought from them I thought I was buying home made food is the problem. I thought I was buying the best I could get for my crabs...w/o making it myself.
     
  10. vckums

    vckums Moderator

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    I don't think it's a company, it's a fellow crabber. I've only seen the person on hca.com.
     
  11. rcar77

    rcar77 (Micro Crab)

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    What is amazing to me is how you can say a product is made for a specific animal, and than come to find out that it is harmfull to that animal. You would have to thank god for the internet, because before we had the internet you would be out buying these product. You can't always count on the company that you buy your pet from to give you the correct care for them. They are business looking to make a sale or they never deal long term with that animal so they usally get the basic information to sell the animal.
     
  12. krackersmom2

    krackersmom2 (Large Crab)

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    I also believe sulphur dioxide is the preservative found in many store bought dehydrated fruits and veggies.....thus the sulphur free line of products my health food store carries. I try to read ingredients carefully and stay away from anything with preservatives.
    Also, just because an individual is selling the product, that desn't mean they don't get their items from a wholesaler.
    When they say it meets the nutritional needs of your hermit crabs, sure the nutrients may be there ALONG with the bad stuff....that statement was vague and left room for leaving out information.
    I do find it highly suspicious that the ingredient in question disappeared from the ingredient list after you sent your concern.:eek:
     
  13. krackersmom2

    krackersmom2 (Large Crab)

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    Anything with the word "sulfite" would contain sulphur. Thanks for the information...I'm aalso leary when I see the word sodium.
     
  14. Chuck_Norris

    Chuck_Norris "Preparing For Second Molt"

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    The thing that bothers me most about this whole thread is that it appears as if the seller is aware that there is an ingredient that is harmful to crabs, yet continues to sell the food anyway. It's just like pet stores and how they're all about profit and don't care about the wellbeing of the animal. You'd think someone who is supposed to have a passion for crabs would immediately pull such a product as to not harm other's crabs. And then to manipulate the ingredients is just sickening. Everybody has a right to know the facts before making a purchase, whether it hurts the business or not. I, too, am thankful that I found this site and Vicki's store. :)
     
  15. crabbycrazy2

    crabbycrazy2 "Second Molt, A Success"

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    UPDATE:

    This is the most recent reply from The Crabbage Patch. It is in regards to why they changed the product ingredient.

    Good morning,

    I have changed nothing in the product description since webegan carrying their foods months ago. Maybe you are thinking of another site.
    Both Colorado Care Company and Crabotanicals arepreservative free, organic foods that contain only beneficial ingredients forhermit crabs.

    Regards,
    Kirk Weick
    THECRABBAGE PATCH
    Everything for the land hermit crab enthusiast
    www.thecrabbagepatch.com
    2880 David Walker Dr. #303
    Eustis, FL 32726
    (352) 383 - 8011

    -----Original Message-----

    This will be my reply!

    No, I am not mistaken. Myself and several others have seen it listed on your website, under the CCC's Hermit Crab Kibble. I just don't understand how it's there one day and gone the next. Nothing has changed that quickly w/ the product ingredients that are stocked in your store. I will be informing all my fellow hermit crab friends about this matter. Thank you for your time and consideration in this problem. Were obviously not going to see eye to eye.

    Okay, 3 things here, 1.) I've never mentioned Crabotanicals in ANY emails to them. So, why so suddenly is he bringing this up? Makes me wonder? 2.) It's another she said, he said scenerio, so I'm really not going to get anywhere with this Company. 3.) I have yet to receive a complete list or a reply from the CCC.
     
  16. crabbycrazy2

    crabbycrazy2 "Second Molt, A Success"

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    [​IMG]

    Okay, I'm letting everyone see this before I email CP back. That way this can't be changed and taken off the ingredient list too. If you notice in the ingredients list it states that the tortilla chips contain (stone ground white corn, veggie oil (sunflower or corn oil)!
    Alright, this shouts out to me as well! If these kind of oils are in there, it seems these chips are fried! These are not good oils for crabs!
     
  17. crabbycrazy2

    crabbycrazy2 "Second Molt, A Success"

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    Here is some research a fellow crabber found for me. I wanted you to see what corn oil can possible do to the crabs.

    Corn oil is high in polyunsaturated fat and tends to undergo oxidation more readily than some other oils (e.g., olive). Oxidized fats generate free radical damage to cells, a process that is implicated in various degenerative diseases, especially certain cancers. For example, corn oil is used experimentally to promote tumor growth in some laboratory models of breast, colon, and other cancers.
    Corn oil may also impair immune function. I typically recommend to my patients that they try and limit or avoid corn oil and use olive or other monounsaturated or essential fats instead.

    This was taken from this website: Is Corn Oil unhealthy to use in your cooking ?
    It states the following:
    "It is a major error to put corn oil among the healthy macrobiotic oils to consume regularly. Corn oil is too high in polyunsaturates to be healthy and when it is heated, it becomes toxic."

    If the last one doesn't make you change your mind, this one will: The Acute Oral Toxicity of Corn Oil -- Boyd et al. 9 (3): 137 -- The Journal of Clinical Pharmacology and the Journal of New Drugs
    It states:
    The Acute Oral Toxicity of Corn Oil

    Eldon M. Boyd M.D.1, M. A. Boulanger 1, and E. Carsky 1

    [SIZE=-1]1 Department of Pharmacology, Queen's University, Kingston, Ontario, Canada.
    [/SIZE]
    When corn oil was given by intragastric cannula to young male albino rats in doses of 60 ml/kg and over, part of the oil was immediately evacuated. When given in single daily doses for 5 successive days, the cumulative median lethal dose or LD50 (5 days) was found to be 256±28 Gm/kg, the maximal LD0 (5 days) 89 Gm/kg and the minimal LD100 (5 days)393 Gm/kg. Clinical signs of toxicity were inhibition of growth, anorexia, oligodipsia, a slight hyperthermia, oliguria, aciduria, hematuria, diarrhea, fur soiling, epistaxis, listlessness, pallor, ataxia, cyanosis and prostration. Death occurred in deep hypothermic coma following a period of complete anorexia, adipsia, anuria, proteinuria, hemorhinorrhea and hemodacryorrhea. At autopsy there was found a marked local inflammatory reaction in the gastrointestinal tract which apparently permitted absorption of droplets of oil which were found in many organs where they appeared to be responsible for capillary-venous congestion, circulatory stasis, thrombosis, hemorrhage, dehydration and loss of weight. There was a stress reaction in the adrenal and thymus glands and in the spleen, hepatitis, nephritis, and degenerative changes in the testes. Recovery was rapid in survivors and at one month organ weights and water contents were within normal limits. The toxic reaction did not appear to be peculiar to corn oil but to be probably characteristic of food oils in general.

    This website is awesome about explaining the corn oil. I recommend you checking this one out as well. CORN OIL

    Here is what was found about Vegetable Oil:Food fried In Vegetable Oil May Contain Toxic Compound

    It states:
    Food fried In Vegetable Oil May Contain Toxic Compound


    A. Saari Csallany and Christine Seppanen University of Minnesota researchers A. Saari Csallany, a professor of food chemistry and nutritional biochemistry, and graduate student Christine Seppanen have shown that when highly unsaturated vegetable oils are heated at frying temperature (365 F) for extended periods—or even for half an hour—a highly toxic compound, HNE (4-hydroxy-trans-2-nonenal), forms in the oil. Previously, vegetable oils such as soybean, sunflower and corn were regarded as heart-healthy because of their high levels of linoleic acid, a polyunsaturated fatty acid. HNE is incorporated into fried food in the same concentration as it forms in the heated oil. Also, Csallany and her colleagues have found three toxic HNE-related compounds (known as HHE, HOE and HDE) in heated soybean oil. They will present their work at a poster session from 9 a.m. to 2 p.m. Wednesday, May 4, at the 96th annual meeting of the American Oil Chemists Society in the Salt Lake City Convention Center.

    “HNE is a well known, highly toxic compound that is easily absorbed from the diet,” said Csallany. “The toxicity arises because the compound is highly reactive with proteins, nucleic acids--DNA and RNA--and other biomolecules. HNE is formed from the oxidation of linoleic acid, and reports have related it to several diseases, including atherosclerosis, stroke, Parkinson’s, Alzheimer’s, Huntington’s and liver diseases.” Csallany’s work underscores the risk of repeated heating, or reusing, highly unsaturated oils for frying because HNE accumulates with each heating cycle. In future studies, Csallany and her colleagues plan to determine how long polyunsaturated oil must be heated at lower temperatures in order to form HNE and its related compounds. The study was funded by the University of Minnesota.

    I'm sooo glad I changed over to Olive Oil in all my cooking needs. This is before I found out all of this today. I didn't even know how bad this stuff can really be for you, can you imagine how it would effect animals?
     
  18. krackersmom2

    krackersmom2 (Large Crab)

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    I live in an area of the country where Mexican foods are common. Tortilla chips are indeed fried in oils....and salted with table salt. You can purchase baked tortilla chips, but they would not contain oils for frying.
     
  19. Chuck_Norris

    Chuck_Norris "Preparing For Second Molt"

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    Aaaah... good for you for staying strong! It's easy for them to say that they didn't change the ingredients because there's no proof, but I'm glad that you're confident in the fact that you know what you saw and that others saw it as well. They know the truth, and when you reply in such a confident manner, THEY know that you know the truth. Maybe you could get other witnesses to mail as well? At any rate, don't let them get you down, you're doing great! :D
     
  20. crabbycrazy2

    crabbycrazy2 "Second Molt, A Success"

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    Well my fellow crabbers, it didn't take long for The Crabbage Patch to respond this time. Here is their reply:

    Good evening crabbycrazy2,

    It would be wise in the future to get your facts straight before posting accusations on a public forum. Forums have the ability to help or hurt, and come with an inherent responsibility to convey accurate information. You definitely owe Colorado Care Company an apology for your false statements. Their product ingredients, as stated accurately on our web site and their label, DO NOT contain metabisulfite.

    We thoroughly examined all of the food and treat ingredients listed on our site which we currently sell. The only products that contain a similar sounding ingredient are a couple of the T-Rex Crab Island Treat Sensations. Their label states “sodium metabisulfite (preservative)”.

    One of the reasons we list the food ingredients on our site is for our customers to be able to make an informed personal decision using the facts provided. We make every effort to convey accurate information to our customers. We take all inquiries seriously and answer them honestly. We certainly do not appreciate the misrepresentation and inconvenience your sloppy research has caused.

    We feel it is appropriate, and in everyone’s best interest for you to correct your forum posts and take responsibility for your mistakes.

    Kirk and Tammy Weick
    THE CRABBAGE PATCH

    Once again this will be my reply to them:

    Sloppy Research??? Not likely since there are currently 3 of us working on it. Very Lucky for you, that I didn't get a screen shot of that ingredient the day it was changed. I will reinstate, I was NOT the ONLY person to view it on your website under CCC's ingredient list.
    If anyone needs to apologize it should be The Crabbage Patch for selling their product and for selling products containing sodium metabisulfite. Also, the Colorado Care Co. should apologize for making the product. Being a fellow crabber herself, she should know better than to put that junk in the food. If you were truely concerned about listing all ingredients in their food, why does it only say mineral and calcium supplements? That's a little to vague for our interests and leaves to much speculation. Does the CCC have a list of the supplements they use in their products? If so, I would like to see a copy of that list.
    Further more I would like to include that before this preservative was to be found in their kibble on your website, there were already growing concerns on two other websites about their products.


    Thank you again,
    Jeffiegfan24
     
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