Discussion in 'What's Cooking? - Not Poison!' started by Hermies4Ever, Oct 27, 2009.
Are Commercial Treats (made out of fruits and grains) okay for me to feeds my hermit crabs???
Yes they are. "Ingredient List All ingredients are required to be listed in order of predominance by weight." From Pet Food Labels - General
They do not "remove" things on purpose - the processing causes some delicate molecules to be destroyed and thus the materials are replaced, or more commonly added in sufficient quantity to allow for a certain level to be present ofter processing.
Why? Ascorbic acid is ascorbic acid is ascorbic acid. Riboflavin is riboflavin is riboflavin - whether made by a bacterium or a geek in a lab. DO you have any evidence that there is any physical difference between two identical molecules based solely on how they were synthesized?
Depends. I have fed the "just fruits" products - just freeze dried fruit bits. Crabs love 'em.
They do. Don't beleive everything you read on the internet.
I wouldn't be - but since they are require to list the stuff, it is fair.
That may be, but not for the reasons some have suggested.
I personally prefer Vckums' Hermit Crab Addiction Store. . . She offers a wide variety of healthy and organic hermit crab foods/treats. . .
There's been quite a few crabbers who have contacted companies and asked questions and got no answers to those questions. One example is if EQ was in their foods. These crabbers then went onto the internet to the forums they belonged to and passed on any information they got. There's been a lot of research into commercial foods by many crabbers online. For many of us it was first hand experience with feeding our hermit crabs certain commercial foods and then having them die or seeingthem come out from a molt with deformities. Then having a light bulb moment and narrowing it down to foods. Foods that were supposedly safe because they were marketed for our pets.
"All commercial pet foods must be preserved so they stay fresh and appealing to our animal companions. Canning is itself a preserving process, so canned foods need little or no additional help. Some preservatives are added to ingredients or raw materials by the suppliers, and others may be added by the manufacturer. The U.S. Coast Guard, for instance, requires fish meal to be heavily preserved with ethoxyquin or equivalent antioxidant. Evidently, spoiling fish meal creates such intense heat that ship explosions and fires resulted."
For you to say don't believe everything you read on the internet may apply to some things. To the information people have provided about commercial foods is another.
The crabbing community has come a long way with correct information. More information is learned and passed along.
Vckums, do you get any shipments of octopus and squid meat???
I wanted to share something else I found on Epicurean.
Adulterants and Additives
Here's a part from it.
What follows is a list of ingredients added to commercial and processed foods that may harm hermit crab health when fed. While I believe that these substances should be avoided, there is no actual scientific proof that these are harmful. This list is being compiled as a guide to dietary harm reduction. The key to good diet, in crabs, other pets, and people, is informed label reading.
The list is definately something to check out.
I don't get shipments, I buy from a local supplier here then dehydrate.
Oh, well than do you currently have any octopus/squid meat in your stock???
I just checked the store and both are in stock.
Great!!! I may order some octopus/squid meat!!!
Additionally, with synthetic vitamins, the problem is this: the vitamin C you eat in an orange, for instance, isn't JUST vitamin C. You are getting the vitamin C, but you're also consuming various other co-factors with the vitamin C. The co-factors help you to digest more of the vitamin C, otherwise, you couldn't get all the benefit of the vitamin in your diet. If you just take a vitamin C supplement (or you just add it to a food for the purpose of "enriching" the food), your body doesn't absorb nearly as much of the vitamin. Some studies have shown that taking a natural vitamin C supplement increases the absorbability of vitamin C by upwards of 30%.
Additionally, not all forms of vitamins are the same. There are two forms of vitamin E that occur in vitamin E supplements - -d (the kind obtained from veggie oils) and -l (synthetic) form, as they are called. Both are vitamin E but humans don't get any health benefit out of the -l form. You can take supplement after supplement of the -l form and never get any absorption. So yes, you are consuming the vitamin, but you aren't getting anything out of it and you might as well not be taking it.
I bring that point up because has anyone tested what forms of vitamins crabs can absorb? Is their bioavailabliity different than ours? Most likely, because I doubt I'd get much nutrition out of eating corn husks or worm castings, but we don't know how. So why, in the face of a complete lack of research on the subject, would you assume that the forms of vitamins we are synthetically adding to commercial foods are the types that crabs can use if we are just now starting to learn how they truly work for us? The term "bioavailibility" (meaning how much we can absorb of the vitamins we eat) has only been around for a few years, and we're just now starting to understand that some vitamins are most "bioavailable" only if they're paired with their co-factors.
It's hard to find good scholarly sources on this stuff; my research on this topic just now mostly relied on this site, which I admit is trying to sell its product. There are numerous other sites, such as Natural News, which discusses these same benefits, and heck - it's even on Wikipedia. And everything on Wikipedia is right...haha, just kidding, but seriously...it's something to consider.
Thanks for all the information, Emmac350!!!
What I don't understand is why people would pay money for crap when they can feed their crabs for free???
It does not cost me a DIME to feed my crabs, (Unless I buy them something special from addiction) They eat what I already have in my house.
It is so much better for them!
So why the big debate over commercial food? are people that lazy that they would rather dump harmful pellets into a tank instead of taking the time to cut a slice of apple? Or are families getting so "fast food" that there is never good enough foods to feed in the house?
Both scenarios are very sad IMO.
DUMP THE PROCESSED GARBAGE!
Just an FYI there isn't a guy on every beach in the world sprinkling hermit crab pellets everyday! In the wild they scavenge food, dead fish, and clams, fallen fruit, leaves and flowers. Not fish flavored cardboard...
Your crabs can eat just about anything you do! That is why there are safe and non safe food lists out there, take the non safe list and tape it to your fridge and then start feeding FRESH.
You wonder why there are so many, dead, inactive, top molting crabs on this forum...some of that may be related to how you are feeding your crabs!
I know that when I stick a fresh dish of shrimp, coconut and apples in that tank I dont even have time to take my hand out of the tank before there is a crab on the dish...how many of you can say that about your commercial foods?
As a parent to me...feeding crabs commercial food is like feeding my kids mcdonalds every day, for one they are gonna get tired of it real quick, and 2 it would kill them.
So maybe we should stop debating over what preservatives and chemicals are in those foods and just STOP BUYING THEM. Maybe the companies that make them will get the hint.
If you dont have fresh food in your fridge may I suggest buying a couple sample packs from Vicky's store, she sells high quality HEALTHY chemical free food and it is VERY Cheap!
I personally like Vckums' Hermit Crab Addiction Store. It has loads of healthy, organic hermit crab food, which my hermit crabs love!
Because not everybody knows that commercial food is bad, and surely it is our job, as informed crabbers, to tell them.
Yes - she has some terrific stuff - but this is locally available and convenient. I was just tossing out a suggestion.
If it is in there it must, by law be listed. It is such a common ingredient that I have a hard time imagining that if someone were talking to the right people in product development and nutrition that they could not find that information out. I have asked for just such information from any number of major animal feed companies and have only once had a request for a nutritional breakdown refused, not an ingredients list, but an analysis, and that was simply because I was asking for a lot more information than they are required by law to collect.
Research? Perhaps we use a different definition of research.
I would not suggest that in any of these instances that the person suggesting it was the food was wrong, but it is also hard to suggest causality. After all, none of these animals have been evaluated with toxociology or histopath, correct? This isn't research, these are mere anecdotes. Anecdotes are fine, they are a great way to decide if something needs looking at, but they are hardly research no matter how many you collect. After all, the plural of anecdote is not data.
Don't get me wrong - I am not suggesting that people feed commercial crab foods, not that they are patently safe, but folks are painting with too wide a brush here. I would be one fo the first to suggest that just because something is marketed for a particular species that doesn't mean it is appropriate. Only if they had fed it to multiple generations over time could they make that claim, and lets face it, there are only a handful of species for which that claim can be made.
However, there are some claims that are unsupported with facts being made on this thread. I think it is not unreasonable to point them out.
No it is not. I did not say don't believe anything you read on the internet, I said dopn't beleive everything you read. I think that is a perfectly correct admonition regardless of the subject material. There have been some inaccuracies on this thread. The information people ahve passed on may or may not always be correct, there is little by way of data to support or deny some of the claims.
There is loads of good info in the crabbing community, there are also statments made routinely that do not bear up under rigerous critique and many an anecdote is treated as rigorous data. The crab community is certainly progressing nicely, but it has a way to go when it comes to health care, nutrition, certainly reproduction and a number of husbandry issues. My evidence for that claim? Simple: how long can a hermit crab live (not that every individual will reach the maximum) ? How long does the average crab live in captivity, or to be kind, how long does the average crab live in the care of experienced crabbers. Some certainly have lived a long time, but the overall captive population, even just that subset owned byt the "crabbing comunity" does not ahve a stellar record when it comes to mortality. Many of the puzzle pieces are still missing.
""There is loads of good info in the crabbing community, there are also statments made routinely that do not bear up under rigerous critique and many an anecdote is treated as rigorous data. The crab community is certainly progressing nicely, but it has a way to go when it comes to health care, nutrition, certainly reproduction and a number of husbandry issues. My evidence for that claim? Simple: how long can a hermit crab live (not that every individual will reach the maximum) ? How long does the average crab live in captivity, or to be kind, how long does the average crab live in the care of experienced crabbers. Some certainly have lived a long time, but the overall captive population, even just that subset owned byt the "crabbing comunity" does not ahve a stellar record when it comes to mortality. Many of the puzzle pieces are still missing.""
that's a good question. My past crabs only lived between 3-6 yrs. ave 3-4yrs. how long have you guys had your crabs? it would be helpful info. They say they can live up to 30yrs but how do you tell age when you buy them? How do i know that it wasn't their 'time to go' after 3-4yrs of owning them? maybe they were already 15-20yrs old when they were captured?
Also, i was told not to buy hikari crab cuisine. just to feed them what i eat.
We primarily only eat chiken, white long grain rice, mix veggies, & potatoes. Somtime broccoli & musrooms w/it.
They seem to like variety tho. i used to switch between fish flakes & 'frozen veggies' cooked. well i quit giving them the fish flkes.
They only ate the veggies when i chooped them up-not whole. Once the veg's dried up they won't eat them either.
Just the froz cooked mix veggies chooped tiny w/boccoli. but they don't seen to want to eat them right now.
They don't like potatoes-cooked or raw.
what about chicken? Rob doesn't want to give them any cuase its greasy. He thinks it wouldbe bad for them & unsafe.
Black pepper? crush dried habanero peppers?
Italian seasoning?Oregano? basil? parsley? Those are the seasoning we use.
They only eat food if it's soft & chopped reaaly tiny. They're sooo fussy it seems. We only have the mixture of chooped froz veg & broccoli to feed them.
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